E3: Lust – The Sin That Built an Industry Part 1

Welcome to The Sanctuary of Sin Podcast, where we dive headfirst into the juicy, the taboo, and the scandalously sinful. In this deep dive, we’re exploring perhaps the most infamous—and, let’s be honest, most fun—of the Seven Deadly Sins: Lust.

In Part 1, we’re setting the scene with an exploration of lust as more than just a desire for sex. Lust is a primal force—fueling love, rebellion, shame, art, kink, and control. It’s a craving that drives connection and creation… and, depending on who you ask, possibly the downfall of civilization.

We crack open the ancient scrolls and modern myths to trace how this most human urge became demonized. From Saint Augustine’s iconic teenage erection (yes, really), to the weaponization of shame in patriarchal religion, we unpack how a single mortifying moment at the Roman baths helped build the foundation for centuries of sexual repression. We’re talking original sin, boner guilt, and the birth of the idea that your genitals must be mastered. Spoiler: he blamed his dick for literally everything.

We then track how lust was politicised and policed throughout history—from ancient matriarchal fertility worship to the rise of the patriarchy, where women’s bodies became currency and sex became a site of control. With quotes from scripture, scandalous kings, and rebellious academics, we unravel how sexuality—especially women’s—was tamed to fit systems of power, inheritance, and religious doctrine.

But it’s not all fire and brimstone. We’ll also touch on how lust found liberation in the 20th century: the sexual revolution, the pill, the rise of free love, and how we’re still riding the wave of sex positivity today. From slut-shaming to sacred kink, from Genesis to Grindr—lust has come a long way, baby.

So grab your flogger and your favorite beverage—this is one sin you’ll be glad you didn’t resist.

Trigger warning: This episode discusses religion, sexual shame, reproductive rights, and systemic oppression. Take care of yourselves and listen with awareness. 

Check out our blog article for links to all of our research: https://thesanctuaryofsin.com/blogs/the-sanctuary-of-sin-podcast/e3-lust-the-sin-that-built-an-industry-part-1

Transcript

Jayson: 0:19

So on today's episode, we're going to be doing a deep dive into probably the most interesting, at least for us, deadly sin. Lust.

Rebecca: 0:29

Lust is an intense craving or desire, often for sexual pleasure. It's a primal human drive shaped by culture, religion and personal experience. Lust plays a key role in human sexuality. It fuels attraction, intimacy and pleasure. and can deepen connection when expressed consensually.

Jayson: 0:48

However, its impact goes beyond the personal. Lust has been both celebrated and condemned throughout history. Seen as essential for passion and creativity, but also labelled as dangerous or immoral, it's this tension that makes lust so powerful. It drives industries, relationships and revolutions, whilst also sparking fear, shame and control.

Rebecca: 1:11

So segment one, historical perspectives, starting with religious condemnation. Genesis 4-7. If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must master it.

Jayson: 1:28

Alright folks, buckle up. We're diving deep into one of the most iconic boners in theological history. That's right, we're talking about St Augustine, a man whose teenage shame... basically invented slut shaming as we know it

Rebecca: 1:44

i had such a field day with this research and i swear like our friends and family are probably sick of me talking about this guy at this point because it's just oh i've just got totally hooked like i read his book man we'll get into that later but oh i've done a deep dive and a half on this one Very, very interesting.

Jayson: 2:03

Aye, I've seen you squirrel on away spending plenty of hours just reading and every so often popping your head up to give me a snippet of a story.

Rebecca: 2:13

Now, Lust has always been knocking around as a bit of a biblical no-no, but it didn't really make the All-Star Shin Squad until Augustine got his hands on it. All of this can be

Jayson: 2:35

traced back to one embarrassing moment in his teenage life. At 16, his father took him to the local baths where he conceivably got a hormonal boner and wanted the floor to eat him up. His dad, rather than ignoring the scene, proceeded to get absolutely buzzing that he was going to have grandchildren soon and proceeded to rush home and tell his wife, Augustine's mum. His mother, being frightfully religious, did not take this well. You can imagine how horrible this must have been for him and set him on one of the most influential and damaging journeys in sex, positive or negative as the case may be, history.

Rebecca: 3:15

So this was quite an interesting reading that, do you know, I feel he himself wasn't religious at this point. I've left quite a lot of his story out just because there was so much there to speak about and discuss and I just thought it was too much for just a segment in this episode but I'm sure we will cover him again at some point because there is a lot to unpack there. A lot that I haven't touched. You can put himself in this position here where he's had this embarrassing thing happen and both these parents... having reacted in such different ways have still both created this kind of almost traumatising event for him that he spent the rest of his life trying to fix.

Jayson: 4:01

Yeah, I mean if something like that happens to you at that age all you want is for everybody to pretend it didn't happen. They were both quite extreme reactions to that and that kind of thing would definitely stick with you.

Rebecca: 4:15

Definitely. Definitely. So, while he was not religious when young and rampantly shagged anything with a pulse, even stealing pears as an act of rebellion of God's will, once converted, he really struggled with control over his own needs and felt this was the source of all the evil in the world. His penis was quite literally the source of all the world's problems.

Jayson: 4:37

Quote, Sometimes it refuses to act when the mind wills. while often it acts against its will. His strong need and search for body autonomy, paired with his 15-year-long obsession to take every word written in Genesis as literal, led to his own creation, the concept of original sin. He believed that Adam and Eve wouldn't have had sex in the usual way, but instead, quote, they would not have had the activity of turbulent lust in their flesh. However, but only the movement of of peaceful will by which we command the other members of the body

Rebecca: 5:14

don't know why this immediately brings fists into mind but hey I was speaking to one of your friends about this and like me and him had such a laugh like thinking about penises being like totally within your control like elephant trunks like pure being able to like pick things up and that like laughed for like five minutes genuinely like fucking peeling bananas and stuff like but yeah wild. To kind of speak a wee bit about the Genesis stuff, like, I just, I feel like everybody that I research, I always end up thinking is pure autism coded. But like, that for me, you know, this like obsessive need, 15 years is a long time

Jayson: 5:57

to spend. Yeah, that's not like

Rebecca: 5:59

a wee side hobby, you know. This man spent like a decent chunk of his adult life like trying to make it so that every single word in a book could be taken as literal like he got really caught up on there's a bit in Genesis where they're talking about Adam and Eve's eyes being opened for the first time three years he spent on that three years he couldn't get past it he got stuck on how they could possibly have literally had their eyes closed up until this moment and yeah it's just wild so interesting so he believed that god created us with full control of our genitals now there's a party trick his proof of this being quote some people can even move their ears either one at a time or both together and quote produce at will such musical sounds from their behind without any stink that they seem to be singing from that region so i find it really interesting that this is his kind of evidence for this And that, like, you know, in order to... Almost to, like, the mental gymnastics to make this, like, not only possible, but true. And, like, undeniably true. You know, Bible true. That, like... He's just picking on what I can only assume is stuff he's seen at like a circus or something somewhere.

Jayson: 7:25

I mean, it very much reminds me of stuff that you would see on the playground at primary school. Yeah, yeah,

Rebecca: 7:30

totally, totally. Quite a childlike way of looking at the world. Yeah, yeah. Reading about, like, this was in his book, all these quotes are from his book, which I don't think I said, but... Aye, clutching at straws. Clutching at straws.

Jayson: 7:46

Definitely, definitely seems like it. It's wild how he's... Do you know, from that kind of one big embarrassing moment, he's pulled so much in from roundabout him in his life to form this sort of ideology.

Rebecca: 8:03

Yeah. This is why I thought this was a really important thing to talk about and why I found it so interesting is that, you know, like, through his teachings and through his ideologies and stuff he has been labelled as one of the most influential western philosophers of his time in terms of the kind of effect that he's had ongoing from total butterfly moment and it can all be traced back to this one very human moment in his life that he's just spent the rest of the time trying to almost undo and make it not his fault, but not God's fault either, because that would be blasphemous. I think this is what's got him really turned round about, and like this three-year stint that he spent on the Adam and Eve story, that one fact that got stuck that he couldn't make true, this is where things have got so almost wild and out of proportion to reality, because he's had to create and weave this narrative of it's not his fault this happened, it's not his parents' fault this happened, it's not God's fault this has happened, it must be just humanity is wrong.

Jayson: 9:20

Aye, it's all kind of been born out of his desperation to uphold the values that he sees as important. So he theorised that only through Eve biting the apple, lust was discovered. Quote, they turned their eyes on their own genitals and lusted after them with that stirring movement they had not previously known.

Rebecca: 9:43

Do you often find yourself lusting after your own genitals?

Jayson: 9:46

I mean, not usually.

Rebecca: 9:47

Not kink shaming, just curious. Anyway, all of this led him to the concept that shagging was the original sin and was so loud about this that he paved the way reinventing the Adam and Eve story and bringing it back from almost obscurity. The minds at the time were less convinced of talking snakes and magic trees than we are today. As part of this, he decreed that any and all sex, even within a married couple, is sinful unless for the purposes of procreation. Quote, Amazing how one erection has changed the course of human history forever. Maybe if his

Jayson: 10:40

dad had sat him down and you know, had the talk. Human sexuality as we know it today would be vastly different, but instead slut shaming within Christianity was born.

Rebecca: 10:58

Moving on to the demonisation of sexuality. Peter 2, 11 Beloved, I urge you so sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh which wage war against your soul.

Jayson: 11:13

The demonisation of sexuality, especially within religion, has not always been so prevalent. Before people realised that sex and childbirth were linked, it is suggested that many of the religions were matriarchal in nature, celebrating the wonder of women and their ability to create life. Even male dominion within society is thought to have only begun around 12,000 years ago, after the introduction of agriculture and military with a need for women to stay at home and produce more workers and soldiers.

Rebecca: 11:46

I find it really interesting, like, considering that there was a time when people didn't realise that, like, sex and childbirth were linked at all. They just thought kids just randomly happened. Or probably had, like, rituals and stuff attached to it was just like, oh, the ritual worked. Do you know what I mean?

Jayson: 12:06

Yeah, yeah. And there was, like, in that kind of time, there was a lot more parenting as a group. Children would all be raised together. It

Rebecca: 12:19

takes a village.

Jayson: 12:20

Yeah. And it wasn't until we started seeing things like land ownership and the introduction of succession and inheritance being so prevalent that It started to be important as to...

Rebecca: 12:39

Whose kids were

Jayson: 12:41

who.

Rebecca: 12:41

Yeah. We'll touch on that a wee bit later on, but it's hard to imagine a society where that isn't seen as as important as it is today. Aye. So looking back to early Mesopotamia, some 4000 BC, and the discovery of the true nature of procreation, was when society first took on paternal lineage. This was the beginning of the patriarchy, and a much important link to the rise in the idea of sexual lust, especially in women, threatening the status quo. Women and their children became useful capital, a way of tracking inheritance, creating alliances, and holding onto lands and power. shame is a powerful deterrent and has been a tool of the patriarchy and a pathway to capitalism as we know it today controlling and oppressing society by managing the distribution and the flow of wealth religion has played an important role by not only greatly influencing social norms but by providing a framework for people to live by and creating consequences to living outside this system i think it's really important when you start looking at systems and why things are the way they are is looking at like who they benefit it's like a really good tool to see like why these things have happened and came about and why they're kind of upheld as much as they are today

Jayson: 14:05

yeah and i think with this subject in particular there is a really clear like paper trail of oh this is who benefits from this yeah going all the way back and this is why things are structured this way.

Rebecca: 14:18

Yeah and it's clear to see how social norms and the influence of the people in power only go so far and that's why religion has been so pivotal and especially in the past to generally being able to control massive amounts of people. Because it's put in this system where there's forever consequences as opposed to just like...

Jayson: 14:43

It's not just like you break the law and you go to jail and then you're back out.

Rebecca: 14:47

But in these days, you had a roof over your head and you were fed. Probably not well, but...

Jayson: 14:54

But having that kind of deterrent of forever, for eternity, you're going to suffer the consequences of these actions. That's quite a big... deterrent. Yeah. Even if it's I'm not sure if I believe in that but I'd rather not take the chance.

Rebecca: 15:11

Exactly. It kind of creates this just in case kind of mentality that I don't think exists to the same I feel like the difference as well is you could break the law and not get caught. Nobody's going out there and committing crimes and planning on going to jail. There's always the possibility of avoiding that. Whereas with something like religion, God is always watching. You're forever on CCTV, essentially. There's

Jayson: 15:43

no chance of escaping the consequences of your actions.

Rebecca: 15:48

And it means that you're then controlling what people are doing in private as well as public, which is the difference between that and just regular laws, I would say.

Jayson: 15:57

Yeah, it's this kind of totally pervasive way to exert control even when there's no chance that there's anybody watching or any chance of getting caught. There's this guy up in the sky that can see you all the time.

Rebecca: 16:11

Yeah, and he knows all.

Jayson: 16:13

So I've got a quote here from Indian feminist journalist Nisha Amber. In almost all organised religions, restrictions exist over a woman's choices over her body, sexuality, lifestyle, clothes... and just about everything. Sexuality and reproductive rights is especially the problem area with regard to women. Almost all religions advocate sexual exclusivity for women while exonerating men from the same obligation.

Rebecca: 16:40

So this can also be seen when looking at historical kings and leaders from the past. In stark contrast to the rules seen within their societies at the time, many male rulers enjoyed a hedonistic lifestyle with many wives, lovers, Even within the Bible, quote from David Tyon's podcast. In the Bible, in the Old Testament, King Solomon, the son of King David, is recorded as having 300 wives and 700 concubines. If he slept with a new woman every night, it would take him two years and almost nine months to see each of them at once, just once. And that's just one of many examples throughout history.

Jayson: 17:20

Aye, there's always existed this double standard.

Rebecca: 17:23

Yep. Do as I say, not as I do. Yeah,

Jayson: 17:27

yeah. Men and women are kind of operating off totally different sets of rules. As we just heard in that quote from Nisha Amber, in all these different areas of their lives, there is a different expectation on men versus women.

Rebecca: 17:42

Yeah, and I feel like religion just kind of hammers that home. That's true outwith religion as well, but I feel like, as we've kind of touched on, religion has been this tool that kind of moralises this difference and kind of makes it like justifies it in a way do you know because it always comes down to like man was created in God's image and like women in the apple and Eve and with the help of Augustine that being a lot more prevalent and a lot more kind of leaned on as like a moral story to exist by obviously Nisha Amber's discussing more religion within India which will be outwith Christianity mostly but this is just a thing that again it's coming back to what I'd said before about when we look at these systems and who it benefits the fact that that is dotted and true throughout so many different religions throughout the world is showing it's true purpose and that it's less about beliefs and more about a system of control that has been utilised literally everywhere to just perpetuate the kind of patriarchal system and keep it functioning.

Jayson: 18:53

This distinction was used as a way to separate the top 1% who were above the rules of the masses. It showed their status and their power. Controlling the lust of the rest of the population was a way to establish order and keep things stable within the masses. Controlling sexual exclusivity unfortunately always leads to a greater focus on controlling women. As time went on, even the aristocracy had to adhere to a new set of rules regarding sexuality. Marriages and sex were tools in arranging alliances, gaining strength and power, as well as consolidating wealth. Heirs of dubious inheritance threatened this system, and thus women continued to be objectified. Their worth and their existence based on their fidelity and fertility. This kept the higher classes in check, but what of the rest of society? This is where patriarchal religion steps in. Making lust An adultery or sin allowed there to be not only societal consequences to lewd behaviour, but spiritual ones as well. We can still feel this shame echoed through society today in the form of sex, education and sexual topics still having a taboo nature.

Rebecca: 20:05

I find it really interesting how they've had to use almost like different tools to upkeep these rules within the different classes. Mm-hmm. Because for the higher classes that previously had kind of been above this rule because of the way that they were existing and the way they were living their life, do you know?

Jayson: 20:24

Aye, like the divine right of kings and all that kind of thing. Yeah,

Rebecca: 20:27

yeah, yeah. As we moved away from feudalism and kind of having just like a king and more into having like kind of the rich class and the poorer classes, as kind of had to adapt over time because there wasn't this divine right, as you said, that kind of still existed within... It wasn't a scene that people that were rich were chosen by God to be in these positions in the way that it had been in the past and therefore religion still being used to control the masses could no longer allow these people to be with that system.

Jayson: 20:58

The higher-ups had to start toeing the line

Rebecca: 21:00

as well. But they understood how it worked and why it was and therefore it was more about reputation and and like holding on to inheritance and all the stuff that we've kind of mentioned like it was more practical

Jayson: 21:14

than it was spiritual. Ensuring the family line and making sure it was still their family that was

Rebecca: 21:20

I feel like that's a whole other topic but you know this is something that can still be seen today and you're kind of upper classes who see like their bloodline being the most important and it being potentially disturbed by marrying below their station. I feel like there's still a bit of that goes on.

Jayson: 21:40

Wealthier people, they tend to be having more children because they are looking to leave a legacy.

Rebecca: 21:48

That's what drives them to toe the line, as you've said, and stay within the system. I'm not saying religion is still prevalent these days, but I feel like there's still echoes of it. And the way that the stigma and the taboo and the shame that exists within society today, especially surrounding sex, is this kind of leftover from when religion was used as the framework for people to live by. So moving on to the sex positivity movement. Corinthians 6.18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body. but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

Jayson: 22:30

So there have been many sexual liberation movements over the last hundred years or so. As Western society moved further from religion and authoritative ideologies, outdated views around sex and sexuality began to be questioned.

Rebecca: 22:43

The sexual revolution was the fight for people's sex lives to be a source of pleasure and fulfilment, to be more than reproduction and not just a part of the institution of marriage. These previous notions being a large part of the repression of homosexuality. The movement sought to shake free from sexual repression and this form of political and societal control. Quote from Elaine Giammi, Sexual Liberation and Sexual Revolutions. The sexual revolution was thus based on the notion that the struggle for sexual liberation is a powerful political lever for social emancipation. So this was another absolute deep dive for me through all this because I just found it so interesting. It's something that I've heard about, it's something I've read about before, but never quite in the context that researching for this particular topic brought me to. I've always seen that the sexual revolution was fought by people in the queer community, people in the trans community, people in the feminist communities. They were all standing together And this brought them all together to fight for their rights and fight for their voice. But I never thought about why this particular topic was the one that brought them all together until I started reading through this and it's been amazing. It's been such a wild ride.

Jayson: 24:06

Aye, because if the moral framework is that everything was to be all sexual activity was to be contained within marriage and for the purposes of reproduction that entirely excludes anybody that does not conform to a heterosexual relationship.

Rebecca: 24:26

And even those within a heterosexual relationship that have no autonomy within that because of these rules. And that makes total sense. It's maybe pretty obvious to other people but I just had never thought about it quite in that context before. And it just clicked for me and I totally see why this is a fight that has been at the forefront of all of these massive movements throughout the last hundred years. It's been great.

Jayson: 24:55

So this movement did not start in the 60s but has become synonymous with this time period due to both massive scientific discoveries at the time and the free love movement. Medical science began to truly pull away from their previous allegiance with the Catholic Church creating more avenues for people to have sex without any worry about reproduction. With availability of the contraceptive pill through the NHS in 1961, the revolution was well underway. However, when first prescribed, these were only available to married women in the worry that they would lead to sexual promiscuity. These discoveries paved the way for feminist and LGBTQIA plus movements to be legitimised in the name of science and give them a foundation to fight for legislative changes. Free love in and of itself was the idea of love free from legal ties rather than promiscuity as it was expressed in the media. Sexual battles became a cornerstone in the fight for emancipation. In 1967... Abortion became decriminalised in the UK due to one such movement by the Abortion Law Reform Association, or the ALRA. The bill made it to Parliament seven times before it was passed. During the same year, the 1967 Sexual Offences Act passed in the UK. It decriminalised private homosexual acts between two men over 21 in England and Wales. This act ended. didn't make its way to Scotland until 1980. I

Rebecca: 26:34

had never realised it was as late as that. Do you know, when you think about, like, homosexuality being illegal, I always think the 60s. Just because I think the 60s and the 70s. Yep. But, like, aye, wild.

Jayson: 26:48

Aye, I think Scotland's got this kind of slightly stronger hold on, like...

Rebecca: 26:53

The kind of religious influence

Jayson: 26:55

and stuff. Religious suppression of... Yeah. sexual stuff. Things are a wee bit more repressed here. It's a wee bit more kind of...

Rebecca: 27:05

Which is so interesting because, you know, Scotland's paving the way in so many other ways in terms of, you know, it was the first place that pads and tampons had to be available in public places for people for free. You know, there's things that we have been at the forefront of in terms of women's health that is quite anti-religion in the ways that we've discussed, but so behind the times in other ways, especially when it comes to homosexuality and stuff.

Jayson: 27:34

It's kind of like the modern position is all for the healthcare aspect of things, but still quite repressed and almost shying away from the actual sexual aspect of things. It's the sexual... part of things and the enjoyment part of things that's kind of what makes people a bit nervous a bit sort of

Rebecca: 28:01

I find it really interesting as well this is the first time I've came across about the free love movement and the kind of propaganda surrounding it within the media when I think free love I think promiscuity that is how it has always been kind of labelled and fed to me over the years the swinging 60s totally and In fact, it was actually about freedom from oppression and has yet again been twisted and distorted and changed to suit a certain narrative.

Jayson: 28:31

Yeah, that was really quite sort of interesting to find out that it wasn't, that it was just, you know, orgies and swinging and...

Rebecca: 28:43

There was all that going on as well, don't get me wrong, but it was a political statement doing that, in a sense, or at least partially. Yeah. Which gives it a whole new fucking meaning to me.

Jayson: 28:54

That context has always been missing from anything I've ever heard about that.

Rebecca: 28:59

It's made me so happy and proud as well that this is part of the theme for our upcoming market with Uncensored and it's just gave it this whole other lease of life to me that I wish I had known in going from the beginning but I'm definitely going to be leaning on from now on because it's just oh chef's kiss like great so great so relevant just now as well with everything that's going on you know people should be able to just fucking live their lives man in every aspect

Jayson: 29:34

yeah aye like the law shouldn't be preventing people from living their happy life yeah

Rebecca: 29:41

and loving whoever they want to love

Jayson: 29:43

yeah

Rebecca: 29:44

including them fucking selves. So the 60s paved the way for the rise of sexuality, not only being a tool for liberation, but a source of personal empowerment and self-expression. Throughout the 70s and the 80s, the sexual revolution adapted and changed, its focus becoming wider and stronger, growing into an ideology. Body autonomy, reproductive health, women's rights, gay marriage, acceptance of pornography and sex work. people's right to choose what they do with their own body and what life they choose to lead was at the forefront of the sexual revolution this later gave way to sex positivity a term first coined in the early nineties sex positivity is used to encompass and openness to a variety of sexual orientations, interests or lack thereof, identities and expressions. This was part of a global change in attitudes towards sexuality that had a pivotal moment in 2002 when the World Health Organisation updated its definition of sexual health to include pleasure. This led to more general acceptance of joy as a part of sexual expression. leading to more open and light-hearted discussions and influenced the creation of organisations with this value at heart. Although it's kind of synonymous with the 60s, there was growth in this movement over the 70s and 80s that kind of moved up and got to the extent where it got a rebrand because the fights kind of moved elsewhere. And I feel like this is where things started to kind of get a bit more segregated and split between the different kind of sects of feminism, of the gay rights movement, of trans rights. I feel like all these things started kind of blossoming into their own places and spaces rather than kind of sticking together and fighting as one, as was kind of necessary to do.

Jayson: 31:49

Aye, because after the sort of initial... the initial changes that were made, certain groups' focuses became more specific and more niche. To their own interests. To their own interests, which the other groups... Well, this

Rebecca: 32:05

is where the TERFs and the SWERFs come in. As people got more polarised through their different opinions and views on stuff and different sections of things started popping up, it has kind of... rather than the I don't want to call them the big fights because there is obviously still a lot of work that needs to be done but if you take where we're at just now in terms maybe ignoring the last year and a half let's say because oh my god that's a whole other fucking discussion but up until that point if you took any of the issues that we're facing now and compared them to where people were in the same position a hundred years ago They're unrecognisable for each other. Absolutely. And I think that's what's kind of lost a bit of the fire for some people, not in terms of their own things that only matter and affect them, but in terms of the other groups that are maybe... I don't know how to word this. I feel like people feel that standing as a group for things that don't affect you weakens your claim.

Jayson: 33:11

Yeah, and I think that's all sort of come about with the way that the opposition has evolved as well the opposition has evolved to the way that things are spoken about in the papers and the news it's all designed to polarise people and to segregate them and fragment that fight so that they're not as strong because it's far easier for them to

Rebecca: 33:38

deal with 5 groups of 20 people than 100 people

Jayson: 33:41

correct and

Rebecca: 33:42

this is why it's something that I feel so strongly about if you are standing up for people, stand up for every fucking vulnerable person out there because your voices only matter when they're loud and all together that's the only time that we see change happening and I feel like looking back through the 60s and 70s and 80s we have massive amounts of evidence for this in terms of the amount of change these people managed to get to happen by all grouping together and standing as one and uniting and showing a united front.

Jayson: 34:20

Talking broad strokes, the movement made progress when everybody was together. This is the point we're trying to get. The status quo has learned if they fragment anything that's in opposition to them, they stand a far greater chance of overcoming it.

Rebecca: 34:37

Especially if those people are in the minority to begin with. Do you know where... a lot of the oppressed groups are. That's how that kind of works.

Jayson: 34:45

That's really the importance of them banding together and supporting each other's causes, even if they don't think it affects them. The power is in being allies and having allies. Lending a greater voice to each and every cause.

Rebecca: 35:06

Which all, at the end of the day, have the same goal. Which is to get out under the fucking boot of the patriarchy. Let's argue about how that looks after that's happened. That's always my point. I'm not saying that people shouldn't have their opinions even if they're wrong. But like why is that opinion worth more to you than your own oppression? And other people's oppression. This is the bit that gets to me. If you are really fighting and really having a voice for getting rid of the oppression. Everything else should be secondary to that.

Jayson: 35:45

Aye, absolutely. Rather than tearing down other people to make yourself feel better or feel more powerful, raise everybody round you up and you can squabble about the details once everybody's in this better position.

Rebecca: 36:03

Aye, save it. Save it for a later date. Why is that your main focus just now? Take

Jayson: 36:12

the big steps and worry about the details after the fact. So the sex positivity movement today is really centred around education, self-discovery and embracing the complex, multifaceted realm of human sexuality. It's much more generally accepted now to the point where it's becoming a bit of a corporate buzzword like inclusivity or diversity with brands trying to appear sympathetic to the cause. Moving away from the porn wars of the 70s and 80s, this new wave of sex positivity is creating far more frank, open and honest discussion around sexuality. With that said, the fight is far from over. In fact, sex workers and trans rights have faced even more pushback in recent years. But overall, people are more empowered by their sexuality. It's something celebrated openly, a badge of honour, in a way that's so different from the levels of resilience needed to do the same thing in the past. At its heart, sex positivity is about one thing. Your body is your own.